Solving Gun Violence: Katie Duda

Bobby Doyle 0:00 

Welcome to Solving Gun Violence, a weekly student led podcast from the University of Virginia's Gun Violence solutions Project that tackles one of America's most urgent issues, preventing gun violence. Each episode will feature experts sharing actionable solutions to improve community safety while upholding individual rights. My name is Bobby Doyle, and I am your host today. This episode features a conversation with Katie Duda, a leader at Everytown for Gun Safety, one of the nation's largest gun violence prevention organizations. Katie serves as the Senior Director of local government affairs and Special Advisor to the President at Everytown for Gun Safety working to advance policies that reduce gun violence at the city and county levels. We discussed the role of local governments in advancing gun violence prevention strategies and how grassroots efforts are shaping the future of this movement. If you're interested in practical, evidence based solutions in the future of gun violence prevention, you're in the right place. Let's dive in.

Bobby Doyle 1:17 

Katie, thank you so much for joining us today.

Katie Duda 1:20 

It is so great to be here. Thank you.

Bobby Doyle 1:22 

Yes. Okay, first question. So much of the conversation around gun violence focuses on federal policy, but some of the most impactful changes as you know, come at the local level. Could you speak to some of the most promising local strategies that you've seen in recent years?

Katie Duda 1:38  

Absolutely, and there's so so much potential for impact at the local level. And as someone who leads local government work, it's the work that really inspires and animates me. I think what's really awesome when you look at local leaders across this country is the way that they are embracing evidence informed gun violence prevention strategies. There are solutions out there that we know work. They don't require, in most cases, changes to local laws, let alone state or federal laws. And local leaders can really take action. So to name just one that really excites me, in the city of Baltimore, they are implementing what's called the group violence reduction strategy. It's a focused deterrent strategy. It's really based on the idea that you can identify the relatively very small number of people who are engaged in the most violence, who are the most likely to either be shooters or be shot themselves. You can offer them comprehensive support, things like life coaching, jobs help to support their families, relocating them if they're in a place that's unsafe and they're at risk, but you also are able to say, at the same time, we're offering these services, but we also are all aware of what's happening, and if you're going to continue to engage in violent crime, and that's an important point, really, truly violent crime, the full force of the law will be brought towards you, and they are implementing this in Baltimore in partnership with faith leaders, community leaders, law enforcement at all levels, and they're seeing incredible, incredible impact. And it's strategies like that that really inspire me, that's great, and you're totally right.

Bobby Doyle 3:20 

Baltimore has seen some incredible decreases in gun violence in the last few years. Could you just, for people who may not be as familiar with it, talk more about what focused deterrence really looks like, or where that comes from, because it's a huge idea in the gun violence prevention work. But I don't know how familiar everyone might be with it.

Katie Duda 3:40 

Sure, and I'll start by saying I'm certainly not an expert, but I've learned from so many incredible folks in this space. And actually, it's interesting. It's one of those things where, and this happens sometimes with strategies that work. There's a million different names for it, yes. So you may have heard ceasefire is a term that people have used for focused deterrent strategies in the past. In Baltimore, as I mentioned, they're calling it the group violence reduction strategy. It's it dates back to a time when gangs were a little more prevalent. That's not really what we're seeing in most communities today, and the strategy has evolved to reflect that. So we say group violence reduction strategy, because in any city with high rates of gun violence, you can identify a relatively small number of folks typically associated with groups who are engaged in the most violence. So that's really the first step in any focused deterrent strategy. So that's the focus part, right? Like figuring out the people that you really need to be focused on. And then, as I mentioned, it's really engaging with those folks and engaging with them, with messengers who are credible, who are meaningful to them, and it depends on the person, right? Like for some folks, a faith leader, a minister in their community, might be the person that really connects, or it might be their mother, or it might be a member of law enforcement or a member of a community based group. So it's figuring out who is the voice that will be the most credible to a specific person, and then delivering a message, as I said, of we have support if you want to get out of this life, like there are a lot of supports that are available to you, and importantly, those supports actually have to be available. This cannot just be like a referral to show up at some random place, three days later, real offers of support. And then, for most people right, the hope is that support is what turns things around. And they themselves are no longer at risk, and they're not at risk of shooting others. And for those who do continue to engage in violence, it's that you're able to enforce and make sure that your enforcement is focused on the people who are really driving the most violence, right? So I mentioned success in Baltimore in an evaluation of the Baltimore strategy, there were a few things that really stood out to me, not just the fact that they were able to bring down homicides and shootings, but they were able to do that without increasing arrests. Writ large, they were able to do that without displacing that violence to other parts of the community. So it's definitely a strategy that I'm encouraging other cities to take a look at.

Bobby Doyle 6:14 

That's a really great point, and maybe in a different conversation, we could get into talking about displacing violence and how sometimes people see decreases of violence, but is really just displaced, not decreased. You talked about how focused deterrence is a strategy that's been used for decades now. It's been refined and changed, but it is a strategy that is really, really well known, at least in the gun violence prevention movement. However, people understand gun violence differently over those last few decades, even as strategies have been similar across certain localities, public attitudes towards gun violence really have significantly shifted in the last few years, and the work at every town and organizations like yours has really done a lot, I think, to create that shift, or to help inform that shift. Do you see any strategies that have been working really well for you to reach new audiences, to reach people that maybe won't be natural allies of yours, and how are those working, and what sort of conversations are you having there?

Katie Duda 7:11 

Yeah, it's such a great question and such an important one, because this is an issue where we have to constantly be thinking about our audience, think about what connects. And it's an issue that, sadly, right is really hitting home for many, many Americans in cities, large and small and rural communities and urban communities. And so being really thoughtful about how you can reach everyone, and importantly, reach them where they're at, right? And so for us, you know, I'll maybe mention two things. One, gun owners are a huge part of this movement and a huge part of how we think about the work and so really, being able to speak to gun owners about responsible gun ownership, No one hates an irresponsible gun owner more than a responsible gun owner. And there's so many strategies around just responsible gun ownership and gun safety that can truly make a difference. So strategies around secure storage, education and what have you. The other thing that I'll mention that I'm really excited about is actually something that our students demand action volunteers have been a huge part of, which is really educating people, and particularly young people, on the role that the firearms industry plays in fueling the gun violence that we're seeing in our communities. And in partnership with our students, we've launched this really incredible campaign. You can find it online. It's Are you good with that.com dnd we have produced videos that are really they're kind of funny, they can be fun to watch. It's okay to have a little levity sometimes in this work. And they are reaching young people, reaching folks who might not be aware of the role that the industry plays. May not have opinions yet about the industry and how they should act. And we're starting to see these videos really getting traction, which is really exciting. That's really interesting. You talked about how gun violence looked different 20 years ago, even there were a lot more gang involvement, it's shifted slightly, and our strategies have shifted to address the change in how gun violence presents in our communities. We also see a lot of shift in technology, and I mean, a plethora of ways that gun violence is a problem that we are addressing, but it's a problem that we have to address in new and creative ways every year as we try to get to zero. Is there any emerging trends that you've noticed in gun violence prevention or gun violence generally, and how do you see communities addressing that or fighting against it. There's one that comes just immediately to mind, and it's a really important and really dangerous one. Unfortunately, there's something called a switch or an auto sear. It can be made with a printer really quickly, and in the course of about 10 minutes, it can be used to convert a hand gun into a machine gun, and you'll hear people use the term auto sear. You might hear switch. You might hear Glock switch. And it's something when we look at recoveries of guns that are being used in crimes, we're seeing dangerous increases in and so it's an alarming one, but it's also one that we're really working with both local leaders, state leaders and others to take action on. So you have to always be watching for what the next thing is right and be able to think creatively about solutions. And so I'll mention two solutions that I'm seeing that I'm really excited about. One is States taking action to create state law that bans auto sear switches, modifying guns to become machine guns. And you might think we're seeing that just in like California or New York, but that's absolutely not the case. So Mississippi has passed a law. Alabama is looking at it right now, and so really excited that we were able to and that law enforcement community leaders were able to point to this emerging issue, but then really quickly pivot to solutions, and we're seeing real take up in those solutions. The second thing, and it connects back a bit to the industry accountability work, is we are taking these companies to court. There is one manufacturer, Glock. They are the top manufacturer of guns that are recovered in crimes, and there's a uniqueness to the way their handguns are designed that makes it really easy to use these switches. It's why you'll hear the term clock switch. And so we at Everytown have a in house pro bono law firm that is just set up to take these really difficult cases on. We've already filed suit against Glock with the city of Chicago, where they've seen these switches just used in so many crimes, used to shoot police officers, used to shoot community members. And then just last week, we announced another lawsuit in partnership with the City of Baltimore and the state of Maryland, also against Glock on the same issue. So the key here right is being able to pay close enough attention to what's happening on the ground, to spot these things and then be able to really creatively think about solutions.

Bobby Doyle 12:06 

Yeah, it really takes a partnership between the people who are working on the ground, working with people, that means law enforcement, that means health providers, and the folks who are putting the policies together and actually making sure they're responsive to what has been happening, but what is going to be happening more and more as we address this issue. We've talked a lot about community violence so far, and as hopefully many people know listening to this, the vast majority of gun violence deaths in this country are suicides, and it is really hard to get at the issue of suicides and gun violence. There's even fewer inputs in many ways than how we can get a community of violence. I'm curious, as someone who works with lots of localities, if there's a way that you think about how localities can really address suicides by gun, because I hear people talk about it as a statewide issue or a federal issue, but think of it as sometimes even harder for localities to tackle it. Do you see anything that's been effective in really trying to reduce the number of suicides by gun that cities or localities have been able to implement?

Katie Duda 13:10 

I'm so glad you brought this up, because suicide by gun is absolutely gun violence, right? And it's a huge issue, and one that devastates families, and there's absolutely things that we can do about it. So one of the things when we look at suicide, obviously, firearms are not the only way that people end their lives, but they are the most effective way. And so you know, you can speak to people who have considered ending their own life through other means, and they're still alive, and if you choose to end your life with a firearm, the outcomes are very, very different. So suicide, more broadly as an issue, is something that's so important for us to look at, but it's so much. It's so much more dangerous when a firearm is present. And so it's really thinking about strategies that can create some space between a person in crisis and a firearm. So I think about two things. One, education around secure storage. This is particularly important when we think about young people. And young people as a group are one where we're seeing really upsetting increases in suicide. And so there's education on secure storage. So having a gun locked separate from ammunition, there are laws that can be passed to both make sure that we're educating people on storage, but also that there are repercussions when you're not securely storing a firearm. Though the whole suite of sort of work around storage, education, laws, policy, really important, but we're also seeing really interesting work around temporary, out of home, storage. One place that I'm really excited where I see some energy around this work is actually in the veteran community. You've probably heard this, but there are really the alarming trends of suicide among veterans, and it's typically with a firearm. And as the child of a veteran, I just I care so much about that issue. And so some of the more interesting work underway is also thinking about partnerships, for example, with veteran service organizations. Again, right? Thinking about people who people trust when you're speaking to a particular audience or trying to keep them safe. So strategies where you yourself or a family member could temporarily get out of home storage for a firearm because you're concerned about a person in crisis in your household, or you're concerned about yourself, and that's something I'm really excited about veterans are such an important party in the story of how we solve gun violence, both as folks who are affected by it in a very specific way, and folks who, as you talked about earlier, people who are interested in responsible gun ownership. I hear people talking about, we need to have responsible gun ownership. We need training for people who own guns are have guns in their household. Veterans are the ones who I hear most loudly advocating for those sorts of solutions. So I'm glad you spoke to them specifically. Yeah, I will say, you know, we are really lucky. We have a veterans advisory council at Everytown. I recently spent some time with them. We did some lobbying on the hill a few months ago, their stories are incredible. I think you know, every single person who was with me that day that I spoke with had had someone they cared about, who they served with, who had taken their own life with a gun, and so that issue is so top of mind for them, but they also, as you mentioned, really speak to responsible gun ownership and the training that they received before they were ever allowed to operate a firearm, and the importance they see in responsible gun ownership for those who are not in the military as well.

Bobby Doyle 16:58 

You spent a lot of time talking to mayors and other city officials. And I know that many people feel discouraged about gun violence prevention. They even though you've talked on this podcast already about how we can improve the numbers, for many, it is something that is inevitable, that will keep happening, that we really can improve significantly. When you're faced with an elected official, policymaker or just someone who may have some influence that you're trying to work with and make sure they can see that this is issue that we really can make movement on. What do you tell them? How do you address that concern or that skepticism that we often get from people?

Katie Duda 17:35 

Probably the best thing that I'm able to do is actually bring other voices to the table. And so, you know, I mentioned we did a hill day recently with members of our veterans Advisory Council. I can give you, you know, tons of statistics on veterans. I can talk to you about the kind of depth of the crisis of veteran suicide, but none of that is a substitute for hearing firsthand from a veteran who has either, you know, we have incredible veterans on the council who can tell stories of how they would not be here if someone had not separated a firearm from them, right? And that's just one example, but I think about, you know, the people who inspire me the most in this work as a mother, people who inspire me the most are the mothers whose children have been taken by gun violence and continue to show up in this work time and time again. And if I am able to elevate their voices to leaders like that is the best thing that I can do. So really thinking about how I can create space for the voices of those who have been most impacted to share their stories is what I find to be probably the best part about this work, and often the most compelling stories that we can share.

Bobby Doyle 18:51 

Let's say we're 10 years down the road. Is there a vision for where we could be 10 years like your wildly successful vision, 10 years from today? What does that look like?

Katie Duda 19:03 

First, I would hope that 10 years from now, far fewer Americans are touched by this issue, you know, in the way that they are now. And I guess when I think about if we're wildly successful, how will we have gotten to that place? I think the way we'll have gotten to that place is by recognizing that there is not just one solution to this issue, and that it requires an all hands on deck approach. So it's absolutely not just about law enforcement. They are a huge part of the solution, but they if we only rely on law enforcement, we're never going to get there. So we think about law enforcement. I think about elected leaders. I think about physicians having conversations with families about storage of firearms in the home. I think about television depicting stories of secure storage in homes. I think about music. I think about the firearms industry like you name it. I think the way we get solutions is by everyone, seeing their their role in it and working together.

Bobby Doyle 20:05 

Okay, final question, Katie, what gives you hope as you look at the future of gun violence prevention in the United States?

Katie Duda 20:14 

Local leaders, and when I say local leaders, for me, more than anyone else, it's mayors. It's mayors who are on the front line of this issue, and will continue to be on the front line of this issue. More than 2000 of them are a part of Mayors Against Illegal Guns. They are fighting this fight in their communities, and they're fighting the fight in solidarity with each other for larger change, and that's where I really see the issue going well.

Bobby Doyle 20:45 

Thank you so much for that answer, and for you joining us today. Is there anything else you want to share or plug before we wrap up?

Katie Duda 20:53 

I would just say, check out everytown.org we have so many incredible resources. If you are a student doing research, we've got you. If you're an elected leader looking for solutions, we've got you. So definitely check out everytown.org Beautiful.

Bobby Doyle 21:10 

Well, thank you again for joining us. For other information, you can find information about the gun violence solutions project on our website, and more information about Everytown in the show notes. We will see you next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai